Can Coffee Be a Career? ADHD, Dyslexia, and Making Four Roles Into One Dream Job [Video]

By Understood

What if you loved coffee so much that you made it your career? That’s exactly what David Rubinstein is doing — and it’s working for his ADHD and dyslexia.

In this episode, David shares how his unique combination of interests and learning differences led him on a career path with stops along the way as an electrician and as a champion cyclist. Today, as a coffee professional, he packs four jobs into one: barista, espresso machine technician, roaster, and teacher of all things coffee. All that action keeps David on his toes and engaged.

David also talks about growing up with ADHD and dyslexia in a conservative Orthodox Jewish family. He explains how he was able to find community and understand his passions, and he encourages others to do what they love. Learn about how David’s differences have been his biggest strengths — from speaking five languages to getting things done like Flash Gordon. And pick up a coffee fact or two along the way!

To find a transcript for this episode and more resources, visit the episode page at Understood. https://www.understood.org/podcast/ho…

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at thatjob@understood.org.

Understood is a nonprofit and social impact organization dedicated to shaping a world where the 1 in 5 people who learn and think differently can thrive. Learn more about “How’d You Get THAT Job?!” and all our podcasts at u.org/podcasts. Copyright © 2022 Understood for All, Inc. All rights reserved.

Transcript provided by YouTube (unedited)

0:00
when i was in the eighth grade i wanted
0:02
coffee in school
0:04
and the coffee that they had was like
0:06
really terrible so what i did is i
0:09
borrowed my dad’s angle grinder and i
0:11
cut a hole in the back of my locker
0:14
so that i could run the wire to my
0:16
coffee maker from my locker to the
0:18
outlet that’s hidden behind the lockers
0:22
that hole is probably still there
0:23
[Music]
0:27
from the understood podcast network this
0:29
is how did you get that job a podcast
0:32
that explores the unique and often
0:34
unexpected career paths of people with
0:36
learning and thinking differences
0:38
my name is eleni matheal and i’m a user
0:40
researcher here at understood that means
0:42
i spend a lot of time thinking about how
0:44
we find jobs we love that reflect how we
0:46
learn and who we are
0:48
i’ll be your host
0:49
[Music]
0:53
many of us like to start our days with a
0:54
good cup of coffee i know i do
0:57
but what if you love coffee so much that
0:59
you made it into your career today’s
1:02
guest david rubinstein has done just
1:05
that he’s a barista an espresso machine
1:07
technician a coffee roaster and a
1:09
teacher of all things coffee david also
1:12
has dyslexia and adhd
1:15
we’re going to talk about why having
1:16
these four roles works for him and his
1:18
learning differences
1:20
full disclosure we’ve been friends for a
1:22
few years i’ve been able to visit him at
1:23
work and see him in action so i’m
1:25
excited to have him on the show welcome
1:27
to the show david thank you it’s good to
1:30
be here
1:31
so you’re in a job right now where you
1:33
perform a number of different roles
1:35
do you want to talk a little bit about
1:37
what each of those roles are and why
1:39
they appeal to you in context of the way
1:42
your brain works and the way your body
1:43
works
1:44
i work in coffee in a bunch of different
1:46
ways so i guess the most customer facing
1:49
would be that you’ll see me behind the
1:51
bar
1:52
i also fix espresso machines and install
1:55
them and do all sorts of tech work
1:57
around
1:59
maintaining and upkeep of
2:02
coffee equipment
2:04
as well as rose coffee on occasion and
2:06
teach classes mostly in the
2:09
coffee tech part of the
2:11
job and i guess they all appeal to me a
2:13
because i can
2:15
take this one thing that i love
2:18
and kind of work it into four different
2:20
jobs which kind of keeps me interested
2:22
and stimulated
2:24
and
2:25
they’re all with my hands which is great
2:28
or teaching with my mouth i guess but
2:30
also really like showing people is is
2:32
part of the way that i teach so again
2:34
still with my hands and uh yeah that
2:36
feels really good for me
2:38
yeah
2:39
do you want to talk a little bit about
2:41
why working with your hands feels good
2:43
and perhaps how it might relate to some
2:45
of your differences
2:46
being able to
2:49
work with my hands means that i don’t
2:50
have to really like think in the same
2:52
way as if i were like working with a
2:54
computer or something like that and
2:55
looking at a screen
2:57
where i get kind of this tactile
2:58
feedback that really like works for me
3:01
and helps me understand what i’m doing
3:03
the more i have something in my hands
3:04
the more i feel it the the easier it is
3:06
for me to like retain that knowledge
3:08
and do it again and do it better and
3:09
repeat it and
3:11
yada yada
3:12
yeah definitely do you want to talk a
3:14
little bit about what your differences
3:15
are and how that might relate
3:19
yeah so
3:21
i was diagnosed as dyslexic from early
3:24
childhood and
3:26
that was like always you know trouble in
3:28
school and kind of having the words jump
3:30
off the page and all that i remember
3:32
like copying exercises from the
3:34
blackboard like one letter at a time and
3:36
losing my place every single time and
3:39
just being so infuriated with that whole
3:41
process i also recently discovered that
3:43
i have add or adhd and that’s been
3:46
really like
3:47
interesting and has put like my
3:49
all these different like times in my
3:51
life into perspective in a way that i
3:53
never had before um and always just was
3:55
kind of confused by and even today like
3:58
having uh
4:00
conversation with somebody and all of a
4:01
sudden having this like urge to like run
4:03
out and do this one thing and then want
4:05
to come back to the conversation
4:06
i kind of now have an understanding of
4:08
like where that comes from and that’s
4:10
been super powerful and great
4:12
do you want to talk about whether there
4:14
have been any reflections that are
4:16
related to like job or career choices
4:18
yeah for sure i think the job that i
4:20
have today like i have don’t read
4:22
anything i don’t organize any numbers or
4:25
letters
4:26
i’m really happy about that and i’m sure
4:28
i picked that career subconsciously
4:30
knowing that hey
4:31
i can’t do that or consciously i guess
4:34
that falls into the dyslexia part of it
4:36
and also like having four roles within
4:38
my company i think that really like
4:40
speaks to my add side and being like i
4:42
would not be able to stay with this job
4:44
if it didn’t continuously keep me
4:46
stimulated
4:47
so being able to like pick a career that
4:50
has that is you know super powerful a
4:53
career that like i kind of don’t have to
4:56
that that my my different learning style
4:58
doesn’t limit me in fact it probably is
5:00
a boon
5:02
yeah and i think that
5:04
you’re in a pretty unique and like lucky
5:06
position in the sense that your
5:08
challenges
5:09
don’t come up for you at work now that
5:11
you’re a little bit more aware are there
5:13
any deliberate choices that you’re
5:15
making
5:16
when you’re thinking about how like your
5:18
strengths or like challenges might
5:19
translate into day-to-day work
5:23
an interesting question i think moving
5:25
forward that’s definitely something i’m
5:26
going to keep in mind like as i navigate
5:28
career and work and today i think like
5:30
there’s like this understanding of like
5:32
a task at work that i might delegate to
5:35
someone else
5:36
and i think like those instinctual
5:38
choices have served me really well in
5:40
the past i don’t do my own scheduling i
5:43
don’t do my own billing
5:44
i don’t do my own ordering
5:47
anything like along those administrative
5:49
lines somebody else takes care of and i
5:52
get to focus on the things that i’m good
5:54
at like the work with my hands the
5:57
understanding of these complex
5:58
mechanical things interaction with
6:00
people say like a cafe shift there’s a
6:02
line out the door and you have to make a
6:04
thousand drinks in 10 minutes i’m being
6:06
able to have this like almost flash
6:08
gordon like speed to
6:11
execute do you want to explain what
6:13
flash j flash gordon is yeah so flash
6:15
gordon is like a comic book slash movie
6:17
character the flash who
6:20
you know uh super speed everything but
6:23
also the the whole word came about from
6:25
my partner who would be like in the
6:27
kitchen like you know chatting or
6:29
whatever and she’d like be like oh can
6:30
you wash the dishes i’ll be like yeah
6:32
sure and then like uh 10 minutes later
6:34
she’ll be like hey
6:36
what
6:37
how are the dishes done you were in
6:39
front of me the whole time i didn’t see
6:41
you do it or something along those lines
6:43
and just this and i think like my
6:45
co-workers sometimes feel it also where
6:47
they’ll like turn around and be like
6:50
it’s all done already that’s flash
6:51
gardening
6:52
another thing that we’ve talked about in
6:54
the past is acknowledging that maybe
6:56
management isn’t for you and turning
6:58
down some of those opportunities do you
6:59
want to talk a little bit about that and
7:01
you know why you haven’t gone in that
7:03
direction
7:05
i really enjoy human connection and
7:08
being able to kind of be at eye level
7:10
with everyone around me and i i think
7:13
like some of the managerial roles that
7:16
have been offered kind of would like
7:17
change that and like create this kind of
7:19
power dynamic that doesn’t allow me to
7:21
have that eye level relationship that i
7:23
really want with everyone around me and
7:25
you mentioned that like not everybody
7:27
has has found their
7:29
a way to make all their strengths work
7:31
for them and you know their learning
7:32
differences are apparent in some of
7:34
their work and i think like everybody
7:36
has that to some extent and even me like
7:38
i’m going to be looking for other
7:39
opportunities in the future
7:41
and there’s going to be things that
7:42
don’t perfectly align and it’s just a
7:44
continuous navigation through life
7:47
of figuring out what works and what
7:48
doesn’t
7:50
yeah definitely it’s all an experiment
7:53
well i know you talked a little bit
7:54
about coffee machine repair and i think
7:57
you called it the coffee tech side of
7:59
things and i think that’s such an
8:01
interesting niche and something that i
8:03
didn’t really know there was a demand
8:05
for or that there was a
8:08
field in this do you want to talk a
8:10
little bit about how you discovered it
8:13
and and why you like it
8:15
yeah my family is very
8:17
crafty i guess is the best word and i
8:19
was an electrician for a little while
8:21
did some of that and then did not enjoy
8:24
the fact that it didn’t have that human
8:26
experience and that human connection so
8:28
wanted to move away from that and i knew
8:29
that coffee was a passion of mine and i
8:31
wanted to
8:33
see how i could work in that space but
8:35
still
8:35
make rent because coffee doesn’t pay a
8:37
lot of money so it was kind of like an
8:39
understanding of like oh here’s an
8:41
interesting skill that i have through
8:42
electric work can i kind of at least say
8:45
that i know how to fix espresso machines
8:47
well enough to get some hands-on
8:49
experience in the field on my own and
8:50
then i actually know how to do it now so
8:52
there was a little bit of that and yeah
8:55
that was kind of like the
8:58
the the you know i had a out of a friend
9:00
that once told me that you’re never
9:02
you’re probably not going to be the best
9:04
at anything but
9:06
if you take this interesting combination
9:08
of all the things that you’re pretty
9:10
good at you might be the best at this
9:13
combination so i kind of like thought
9:15
through that i was like well i like
9:16
coffee i’m pretty good with my hands and
9:18
technical stuff i know some electric
9:20
work
9:20
should probably poke around on the
9:22
inside of the things that are making the
9:23
coffee and that’s kind of how i landed
9:25
where i am
9:27
i’ve heard you refer to it as kind of
9:29
like being
9:30
the coffee equivalent of a car mechanic
9:33
maybe
9:34
yeah you know cars need your lean
9:36
maintenance your espresso machine needs
9:38
early maintenance they both have
9:40
plumbing they both have electric
9:42
they both have a power source
9:46
do you kind of feel like there’s an
9:47
element of you know problem solving or
9:49
like detective work of like oh what
9:51
happened for sure like what can i do
9:53
it’s like is it clicking in this way is
9:55
it not clicking in that way is there
9:58
steam coming from here or not
10:00
um
10:01
it’s kind of like you know like the
10:02
plumber will come to your house you know
10:04
we’ll like bang on the wall
10:05
hit a little pipe and everything will
10:07
start working again and he charges you a
10:09
thousand dollars and you’re like why is
10:11
that a thousand dollars and he’s like
10:12
because i knew where to hit
10:14
you didn’t and that kind of like speaks
10:16
to you know the experience in the field
10:18
and
10:19
figuring out how to do that does it
10:21
translate as a skill into other areas
10:24
i wish it did more they’re pretty
10:26
specialized it’s pretty nuanced and the
10:29
the places that it does translate to you
10:31
know i
10:33
guess i know plumbing now i don’t really
10:34
plan on being a plumber so yeah i wish
10:37
can you fix your own kitchen sink though
10:39
i definitely can
10:41
that’s helpful yeah
10:42
helpful life skill for sure
10:45
and you talked briefly about
10:48
loving coffee do you want to talk a
10:50
little bit about
10:52
what you love about coffee and maybe
10:54
some fun facts around coffee that you
10:56
like to share with people sure so
10:59
what i love about coffee is that it’s
11:01
drank by so many people all around the
11:03
world and it’s kind of this unifying
11:06
a human experience that is shared by so
11:09
many and that like leaves room for like
11:11
amazing conversation an amazing
11:12
connection which you know it’s kind of
11:14
like almost like connection through
11:16
coffee as opposed to just this brown
11:18
water that we drink and i love the taste
11:20
i think it’s delicious i’d probably be i
11:23
don’t know where i’d be without caffeine
11:24
in my life so
11:27
that’s like some of the things that i
11:28
love um interesting facts so if you look
11:30
at your whole coffee beans and
11:33
you
11:34
flip there’s the round side and the flat
11:36
side and the flat side kind of has this
11:38
indent in it so if it has a lighter
11:40
colored
11:41
inside
11:42
of that little crack than they used
11:44
water to process it and if the indent
11:47
inside is the same color as the rest of
11:48
the coffee bean that means that it was
11:50
dried on beds kind of like concrete
11:53
slabs that the coffee is like spread in
11:55
a single layer
11:56
to dry the fruit out so that they can
11:59
then easier remove the pit from it other
12:01
fun facts
12:03
um the tasting notes tasting notes are
12:05
like super subjective everyone has their
12:07
own and said something about there’s
12:10
more tasting notes in coffee than wine
12:12
or something is that a fact
12:14
yeah there’s three times as many tastes
12:16
that are recognized over a thousand
12:18
different tastes in coffee and only a
12:20
little over 300 in wine so you can say
12:22
that it’s three times more nuanced than
12:24
wine
12:25
although i’m sure some wine people will
12:27
get pretty upset at that
12:28
maybe we’ll have a wide version of the
12:30
show as another episode
12:32
they can give their rebuttal
12:34
oh and the
12:36
world’s largest coffee producing country
12:39
is actually not one that you’d think it
12:40
is
12:41
and it i might be getting this might be
12:42
the second largest not the largest um
12:44
but it’s actually i think i know the
12:46
answer to it do you what do you think it
12:47
is i think it’s vietnam yeah you’re
12:49
right it is we didn’t hear trivia um but
12:52
everyone’s like oh colombia or brazil
12:55
but no it’s i remember being surprised
12:57
by it because i would have thought it
12:58
was like colombia or guatemala or you
13:01
know somewhere in central or south
13:02
america but
13:04
yeah
13:06
is there a story around how you
13:10
kind of became focused on coffee and how
13:13
that
13:14
interest
13:15
became so prominent
13:17
so when i was in the eighth grade i
13:19
wanted coffee in school
13:22
and the coffee that they had was like
13:24
really terrible so what i did is i
13:26
borrowed my dad’s angle grinder and i
13:28
cut a hole in the back of my locker
13:31
so that i could run the wire to my
13:33
coffee maker from my locker outlet
13:36
that’s hidden behind the lockers
13:39
that is ingenious that hole is probably
13:41
still there
13:43
oh my god was it ever discovered no it
13:45
wasn’t actually but there was definitely
13:47
like classmates of mine they were like
13:49
oh you have coffee can i get a cup but
13:50
yeah no no i never got like in trouble
13:52
or anything for it it was my little
13:54
secret
13:55
well that’s an early indication of some
13:57
interest in electrical work i suppose
14:01
well i think that that was actually a
14:02
good segue because i was going to ask
14:04
you
14:05
you know you have this interest in
14:07
coffee do you want to share some other
14:10
hobbies or interests that have kind of
14:12
come up throughout the years and whether
14:15
they led to other jobs and career paths
14:18
i was a professional cyclist at for a
14:20
point that led to
14:22
almost a professional career path but
14:24
not quite
14:26
do you want to talk a little bit about
14:27
that story
14:28
yeah i found the intense physical
14:31
exercise to
14:33
kind of now i realize after this add
14:36
diagnosis
14:37
be like oh that’s what i was doing to
14:40
kind of like
14:41
quiet the mind and quiet the body and
14:44
kind of have this like intense physical
14:46
space to kind of like let all that extra
14:48
energy go and i became like really like
14:50
addicted to this to this release and
14:53
ended up cycling for like local cycling
14:55
team here in new york and racing and
14:59
doing all that which led to my team
15:01
sending everyone on the team to a
15:03
training camp in a different country of
15:04
your choosing and i had some friends
15:06
that i was visiting in israel so i chose
15:09
to go there for my
15:10
training camp which led to me speaking
15:13
to the israeli national team to join
15:15
their team which led to a whole new life
15:18
experience as i kind of like did not get
15:20
back on my return flight to the states
15:23
and ended up staying there for five
15:24
years
15:27
which maybe talks a little bit to i
15:29
don’t know going with the flow of the
15:31
moment perhaps
15:32
maybe
15:34
i know you grew up in
15:36
you know a fairly conservative orthodox
15:39
jewish community do you want to talk a
15:41
little bit about that and how and if
15:44
that played a role in your understanding
15:47
and acceptance of some of your
15:49
differences i think that like mental
15:51
health is really not spoken about in a
15:54
lot of um conservative communities or
15:56
it’s overlooked when it’s just like oh
15:58
you should just turn to god which is not
16:00
really a helpful
16:02
way of way to put it so i think there
16:04
was definitely some of that which i was
16:06
like well i turned to god and it didn’t
16:07
work for me so maybe let’s try something
16:09
else but also like at the same time like
16:11
what is 20 years ago research was just
16:14
coming out about like neurodivergence
16:16
and dyslexia and and especially like
16:19
within more insular communities which
16:21
are always 10 years behind at least on
16:23
everything so there was nothing so that
16:26
was never really like just spoken about
16:28
discovered no one ever like tested me
16:30
for add
16:31
so that was unhelpful
16:33
so i’m curious how you ended up with
16:35
your dyslexia diagnosis i think it was
16:37
more like oh we were trying to like
16:39
study like the talmud and the torah for
16:42
many hours a day and it got to this
16:43
point where i was like very very
16:45
apparent and very clear like that i
16:46
could not read one letter of it my mom
16:49
is in the teaching field so i think that
16:51
was like kind of her push to like
16:53
see where this is coming from and then
16:55
once i did get the diagnosis
16:57
not much was really done with it it was
16:59
like oh you’re dyslexic cool still read
17:01
the talmud have fun so yeah so like i
17:03
think there was kind of like this
17:05
even though you have the letters um
17:08
or you know you’re dyslexic and and you
17:11
have this learning difference um i don’t
17:13
think there was any understanding of
17:14
like oh let’s do something about it it
17:16
was kind of ignored
17:20
do you think that anything in particular
17:22
happened that helped you shift away from
17:24
you know the stigma of that and being a
17:27
little bit more open and like getting to
17:28
the place where you’re comfortable
17:30
enough talking about it on a podcast
17:33
yeah i definitely think there was i
17:35
think the biggest one was when i came
17:37
back to the states i was really looking
17:38
for community and i had been exposed
17:41
briefly to partner acrobatics or
17:43
acroyoga when i was living in israel and
17:46
when i came back to the states i kind of
17:48
found my community through that and
17:50
that’s a space that very much like um
17:53
celebrates communication openness
17:56
working through problems it’s very
17:58
collaborative and i think just being in
18:00
spaces like that really helped me both
18:02
look inwards because there’s a lot of
18:04
introspection in like oh why didn’t this
18:06
work or how can we make this better and
18:08
just again being around people in places
18:10
that celebrate individualism really
18:13
really helps
18:14
with coming to your own individualism
18:16
and really
18:17
celebrating that
18:19
what have you come to like love and
18:20
appreciate about your differences oh
18:22
that’s such a good question i really
18:24
like love this ability to
18:27
you know you have a task list of 15
18:28
things and to just like you know one
18:30
after the next just go go go go go and
18:32
get it all done that’s your like that
18:34
sense of accomplishment is really great
18:36
and i really enjoy that ability what
18:38
about what about from the dyslexia
18:41
i don’t know if this is connected but i
18:43
do have like i’m really good with
18:45
languages
18:46
the spoken word is like much much more
18:48
maybe like that part of my brain
18:50
developed a little bit more to kind of
18:51
compensate i speak three languages and
18:53
understand to others and they all come
18:56
really easily and naturally to me
18:58
what languages are they
18:59
i speak english yiddish and hebrew and i
19:04
understand german and arabic wow i
19:06
didn’t know that
19:08
yeah
19:09
how did you go about learning those
19:11
languages if you could necessarily read
19:14
in those languages i think just like
19:16
more immersion i still can’t read any of
19:19
those languages but just being hearing
19:21
them around me and kind of like
19:23
facial recognition and and context it
19:26
really comes pretty naturally to me
19:28
super cool
19:30
i wish i could do that
19:32
at some point in the conversation you
19:34
mentioned you know like eventually you
19:36
might be looking for the next thing so i
19:38
i would love to hear your philosophy
19:40
around jobs or careers and
19:44
you know what you’re thinking
19:46
in the long term
19:48
yeah i think that there’s like two
19:49
different ways to approach work there’s
19:52
the
19:53
i want to do the thing that i love or i
19:56
want to make enough money to do the
19:57
things that i love and i’m pretty well
20:00
rooted in that i want to do the thing
20:01
that i love camp doing a job that pays
20:03
well that doesn’t fill me it just feels
20:06
really exhausting and draining so i
20:08
think it’s kind of like take all these
20:10
like the unique combinations of yourself
20:12
like all the different things that you
20:13
love throw it on a sticky note throw it
20:15
on the wall and i’m sure over time like
20:16
the right thing will will come to you
20:18
yeah
20:19
that’s great advice
20:21
thanks for being here david i was going
20:23
to say do you want to say thank you in
20:24
all five languages
20:31
thank you
20:33
[Music]
20:39
this has been how’d you get that job a
20:41
part of the understood podcast network
20:43
you can listen and subscribe to how’d
20:45
you get that job on apple spotify or
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wherever you get your podcast and if you
20:50
like what you heard today tell someone
20:51
about it
20:52
how’d you get that job is for you so we
20:54
want to make sure you’re getting what
20:55
you need go to you.org that job to share
20:58
your thoughts and to find resources from
21:00
every episode that’s the letter u as in
21:02
understood.org
21:05
that job do you have a learning
21:07
difference in a job you’re passionate
21:09
about email us at that job
21:11
understood.org if you’d like to tell us
21:13
how you got that job we’d love to hear
21:16
from you
21:17
as a non-profit and social impact
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organization under civilize on the help
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people in more places we have an
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ambitious mission to shape the world for
21:28
difference and we welcome you to join us
21:30
in achieving our goals learn more at
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understood.org
21:34
mission
21:35
how to get that job was created by
21:37
andrew lee and is produced by gretchen
21:39
viestra and justin d wright who also
21:42
wrote our theme song laura key is our
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editorial director at understood scott
21:46
cashier is our creative director seth
21:48
melnick and brianna berry are our
21:50
production directors thanks again for
21:52
listening
21:54
[Music]
22:16
you

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The post Can Coffee Be a Career? ADHD, Dyslexia, and Making Four Roles Into One Dream Job [Video] appeared first on The Good Men Project.